Frank Danna
Hey everyone, welcome to love as a business strategy. This week we sit down with Soojin Jun, she shares a powerful story of personal loss and her deep desire to bring empathy back to every component of healthcare. We hope you enjoy.

Hello and welcome to love as a business strategy is a podcast that brings humanity to the workplace. As you know, we're here to talk about business, but we want to tackle topics that most business leaders shy away from. We believe that humanity and love should be at the centre of every successful business. Now, I'm your host, Jeff Ma. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. I'm Frank. I'm the director at Softway. But I'm not Jeff Ma. He's usually hosting today I'm hosting, it's no big deal. We are a business to employee solutions company that creates products and offer services that help build resilience and high performance company cultures. Today, I'm joined by Mohammad, Softway CEO, hello, Mohammad. Hello, Frank. Hey, and Soojin Jun. And this is our special guest. And we are so excited that you're here with us today. And Soojin, I'd like to introduce you really quickly. You are a voice for voiceless patients in health care. You're a believer in empathy. You're a pharmacist, and you're a patient advocate. And you're also a medium writer. So you own a medium publication called I Am cheese, where you share healthcare stories with the vision of empathetic healthcare. So welcome to love as a business strategy.

Soojin Jun
Thank you for having me. I'm very excited.

Frank Danna
Very excited Soojin. And so as per usual, we start out our episodes with a little icebreaker question. And so today's icebreaker question is kind of healthcare centric. And I'm gonna throw it at Mohammad first. So he gets to answer it and you get time to think about this. But Mohammad, this will be an easy question for you. Have you ever broken a bone?

Mohammad Anwar
Oh, plenty of times!

Frank Danna
And how is the question what's the what's the juiciest story around breaking a bone?

Mohammad Anwar
Okay, the one story is from high school, I used to go to a college prep school where I lived in the dorms. And so in the cafeteria, we had like milk and food and you know all of the stuff so I one time took two cartons of milk for dinner time, and I got in trouble at the school for two cartons of milk instead of one. So I had to go see the dorm master who then punished me with giving me work detail meaning now I had to vacuum the floors of the dorm and clean the toilets and things like that because I broke the rule of one carton of milk. So I got really upset and angry and I punched the wall and I broke my hand. Wow. After that it became a big joke in the school and I was stalled by people passing in the hallway hey Moh i think i think you may have calcium deficiency you should drink more milk because of that so that was my story like how I broke my hand punching the wall and it became the joke of the thing to admitted to the yearbook as my future predictions as I move into a house it padded walls, all kinds of things. It was really intense. Oh yeah, that's, that's my story of breaking bones.

Frank Danna
Listen, I first of all, I've never heard that before. And it looks like you were trying to prepare you knew what was best for your body. The quote unquote milk is better for bones. I don't think I think that's been debunked. But anyway. So Soojin, what about you have Have you ever broken a bone?

Soojin Jun
I think I have I don't really remember the details. It was when I was little. I think I was running through like a running race and I broke my arm. That was the Yeah, that's the only detail remember. Otherwise, I don't think I've ever ever broken a bone afterwards.

Frank Danna
I think Mohammad's broken bones for everybody. You're on the call. So for me it wasn't really a broken bone. It was more of a an ankle like fracture I was I was jumping on a trampoline and I was 11 years old. And I was double bounced which you know is when someone hits the trampoline in a certain way and then I flew up really high a lot of fun up in the air. But when I hit my ankle kind of twisted a bit, two weeks before I was taking an international trip to the Philippines. And so I was really freaking out because it was my first like trip, you know to another place outside of like an actual long distance trip. Luckily it wasn't bad enough to not be able to go but it it hurt for a few days. And I think that's the closest I've gotten to a bone breaking was just jumping on a trampoline nothing like punching walls or anything? Okay. Okay, we are good. Thank you for that icebreaker. And Soojin, I just want to start with you

Mohammad Anwar
is that a bomb breaker icebreaker I don't know. I want to know what this is a right here.

Frank Danna
And it's amazing. It's a it's an incredible environment. And Soojin, I want to I want to start off with you and talk about your passion for, for what you do the work that you do. And I want to, you know, the first the first statement that I mentioned was that you are a voice for voiceless patients and health care. And I'd love for you to just start us down this path, tell us the story of how you got to this place where you've arrived to be this patient advocate, I'd love to love to hear that story and dig into a little deeper.

Soojin Jun
Sure. So this goes back about 13 or 14 years ago, when I was a caregiver for my father. I was wedding videographer at the time, it's totally different from pharmacy. And my dad was diagnosed with cancer, stage three cancer. And on top of that, he also was diagnosed with diabetes afterwards. And I was relatively healthy. He was also until that diagnosis. We were very unfamiliar with health care system and United States, we are from South Korea. And, you know, although he was very fluent in English, so Korean was his primary language and English was his second language. So he had no issues with communicating in everyday language, but when it came to healthcare was very different. And like I didn't know what to expect. And he didn't really know what to expect, I think as we go from doctor to doctor, because he's you have now he has an oncologist, his primary doctor, and he was in hospital for for a month for like a two tube placement and he's therapies. And then he went into nursing home, then he came to my home afterwards. So right right there, even like in one minute, you can see how complicated the care can be. He has to be tested five times a day for his diabetes for his insulin injection. He has 20 or so medications to take. And, you know, the combination of the trust that I put in health care, and my dad's trust in health care. With these complex navigation, that was present in healthcare, really gave detrimental outcome, he was not getting better. He had two emergency visits for low sugar that can be caused by insulin. So this is anyone who has influenced by the way their medication therapy can have low blood sugar at any time of their therapy, no matter how well it's managed. So if you have diabetic relatives or family members, this is so important for you to know. Because they can just go low sugar and lose consciousness. But anyway, because of all these things that was happening, my dad was just so disappointed and wanted to get care in South Korea, where he would get cheaper care, and more comprehensive because a lot of preventative care and a lot of the cost or health care is covered by the country. So we were all ready to go I couldn't let my dad go by himself. So our whole family that booked our flight, we were all ready to go and one week before our flight he passed away. So in fact, today's his birthday. Yeah, and whenever I have to talk about this variances

See the memory of how sad and angry I was. And I feel like I had to do something so that no other people go through what I've gone through or when my dad has gone through. So, at the time I was considering career teams, and you know, I was always wanted to go down there was before I decided to go into art, and I wanted to pursue something in healthcare. So I decided I was kind of contemplative, different options and pharmacy came to mind because how he passed away was when I felt, pharmacists would be perfect bridge between patients and doctors, and healthcare. So it took me about nine years to complete the pharmacy school, because I was raising two little kids at the time. So I was going part time for my prerequisites. And I had I did, and four years of pharmacy school, so it can be longer than a lot of other people. But I made it and I don't know how I did it. Because it was really, really passed, I slept like three hours a day. And that was like, the entire duration of the, you know, the process while I was completing the course, courses, and yeah, so I became a pharmacist. And so I became one I, you know, I started practising and I realised there was a, there's a pharmacy was this a very little piece of the whole puzzle. And, you know, just taking care of medications was not really solving the problem for patients. And I've got to know, so many patients who are even, you know, they, they're like, English is their primary language, they and they will still get hurt. And they will still, you know, not be properly apologise by the healthcare system. And it's, and this is happening every day, every moment, in this country, there are leading cause of death, next to heart disease and cancer is arguably medical error. I know there is a negative connotation to the word error. But and I and you know, I would argue it could possibly be number one, because there's no way to measure this number. Noise really measuring is the way it should be. And if you count the omissions and count the cases, like in my dad, were Miss coordinations, this results in not optimal outcome, then I was saying it could possibly be number one. And, you know, as I encounter these patients, and, you know, so many minority patients who have second language and don't even have means to bring what they experience, to to anywhere, and there are very even like in the judicial system. Many lawyers don't take patient cases. If they can't see, you know, through them, see themselves winning the cases. And even if they take the cases, they stop supporting the patient, because it takes decades, sometimes or many times to get to the conclusion and a lot of patience and the losing anyway. So there's not many voices, I realised there aren't that many voices for these patients, and I decided to be one and that is why I started the medium publication to to accept any patient stories in any language and I have some volunteer editors who translating stories, so all can learn and master patients and caregivers. But I strongly believe healthcare systems can learn from these stories. And I realised after I became a pharmacist, as much as I advocate for empathy for patients, I realised healthcare professionals need empathy, as much as patients, because we are constantly press to work harder. And, you know, and there's no they don't healthcare systems don't give us enough room to have empathy. And this is a misconception that a lot of people have that you can just kind of, you know, demand empathy, and you you'll get it right? And then the answer is no, you need you need to give a space, you need to give a moment of breath for these healthcare professionals, so they can have a room for empathy. For patients, they need to be able to care take care of themselves before we can have empathy for patients. So these, this is a path that I've taken and realise how empathy needs to be supported in health care in order for patients to be heard, but also healthcare professionals to be heard.

Mohammad Anwar
Thank you for sharing. Soojin, that was really, I, I appreciate you sharing that. I think there are many folks out there who have, you know, similar stories or experiences, you know, having gone through, you know, loved ones, or family members, you know, through these healthcare type scenarios. So if you don't mind, if you're willing to share, like, I know, you touched a part of like, English is not their first language, or it's their second language and, you know, minorities or cultural differences, would you be able to give examples from the stories that you've heard and learned from, about how it could become an impediment in delivering healthcare, or what you've seen from the stories were, there is that lack of empathy are some examples for us to discuss.

Soojin Jun
Um, so, you know, as I was participating in a conference, where it's, it's a, an organisation called ACCME. And I was at attending the conference as an advocate. So there were full of people who were executives and educators and, you know, and I'm not a racist. First of all, so, I want to give that as a background, but this is a full, this is a room full of people who are white male. And I was given a chance to talk about what I'm supporting as a patient advocate. And this, this was very new, like embedding patient advocates and conferences, was very new concept. And they were kind of experimenting this. So I volunteer for this position, and I was selected to be participant and, you know, they were, as they were experimenting, this concept, you know, they wanted to hear from the advocate. So I, you know, brought the issue of the minority patients and you know, there was one gentleman who share the story of a Japanese patient who was seeking help through like, Electronic Health Record system. So you message that you can message the doctor through like my something called like my chart or, you know, there are these tools and health care that you know, kind of facilitate emailing or messaging your doctor. So this Japanese patient was trying to get help for his coffee and condition that he was expereincing in both English was a second language. So his English was not perfect. But he was pushed to use this tool when he requested to talk to the doctor, so he was kind of using that. But, um, you know, because of the English, it wasn't it didn't sound urban, it didn't communicate the context very well. So the Baxter did not really think of it as something very significant. And, you know, the doctor told the Japanese patient to to seek urgent care, and really did not, did not have a chance to fully have a proper interaction with the patient. And then the patient, I guess, in this case, probably didn't think it was that serious, you know, because possibly because of the interaction, but I don't really know the whole story, but from what settlement chaired the the Japanese patient ended up having pneumonia, and passed away. So I talked about this in an article that I wrote and medium because, you know, we owe a lot of papers get pushed to us, it'll help more and more. And this context, you know, although we can't really say digital health was a contributing, you know, the entirely the contributing factor for the death. This is very common practices, I guess it can even apply to any patient who are not able to verbalise or properly communicate what they're experiencing in English. You know, it can very well being very speaking patient, like nine year old, you know, patient who can't really use computer or, you know, it doesn't really necessarily have to be second, you know, English a second language patients, but this case was such a case. So, so I, you know, I was able to have that conversation with that executive. But when I bring up this something, something like this kind of topic, some people were like, roll their eyes, you know, in front of me. And, you know, I'm not sure, you know, they don't really share verbal comments, with, you know, it can possibly be either they don't empathise with what I'm what I have to say, or I have seen some practitioners saying, oh, there's interpreter, they can take care of that, you know, but when it comes to chronic disease interpreter is not the answer. A lot of times, and because, first of all, you don't get a same interpreter or every time, and the patient has to repeat the whole story every time if they get a different interpreter. And, you know, when it comes to chronic diseases that can be very exhausting. for caregivers, and patients, and even even, you know, without the interpretation, patients always always complain about repeating the same thing over and over to different providers and practitioners. So imagine how that can be difficult for patients who have English as a second language. And these kinds of things are still even get into the topic very well. This is more like a second thought for a lot of executives. And that I that I think really needs to change as we healthcare in the United States are expanding to other parts of the world now, and people who are living in the United States can be living in other countries who have other languages as a primary language, the term minority is a very fluid term. You know, you can you can be minority in in any type of setting, not just the language, right, you can be, you know, I know Frank talks about in his in the book, there's a book that you guys wrote, you know, having like an imposter syndrome about his education and things like that. You can identify yourself as a minority in any type of setting, we extend that and that will constantly constantly assess that, as a human being is a human behaviour, not necessarily because you are minority or majority, it doesn't matter, it's something that we do as a human. So the healthcare language I feel, needs to focus how we are human. More than is this majority issue minority issue. And this is something that I realised, as I became aware of, you know, perfectly, you know, the patients who are perfectly able to bring the topic that they care about, you know, get ignored, get paid, they simply get ignored. And it's a very sad reality that we live in. And I also say this, that, unless our healthcare can heal itself, we cannot heal, we cannot have a healing environment for patients that cannot be healed. So, we really need to work hard on the culture, I know that your company's, you know, mission and passion. It is, it is my passion to, unless that changes, no matter how much you know about medications, really, it really does not make an impact for patient.s well being.

Mohammad Anwar
Sorry, guys, I was just gonna say like, yeah, patient safety and outcomes is, you know, a really big healthcare outcome, right, like everybody wants, every hospital system should aspire for improving patient safety and patient experiences. And some of them are even incentivized that way. But ultimately, I think, like you said, if the mindset and the behaviours of the staff the population that are, you know, providing the services, instead of hospital systems, unless they have the, the ability to see everyone as human from an empathic lens, we can Institute all types of technology solutions to bring about efficiency and, you know, solutions to augment or enhance patient, you know, care, but you can, if you're missing that human component of empathy, a will reflect in your, even your technology advancements, your innovation, your processes. If you don't think from an empathic lens, you will see that miss out in your systems that you build your processes, you Institute your technology, you you inside your organisation and healthcare. So that's what I'm taking away from your conversation is, well, it's not the technology's fault, which, you know, we can attribute like in the case of the tele Doc, you know, messaging communicator, tool, it's not the, you know, the, the technology was never built to look at the patient from the lens of the human aspect of, you know, is this going to really be effective for all types of patients English speaking or older, tech savvy and not tech savvy. So, when these technology decisions are also being implemented or made, if the, at the end of the day, it's human, at the end, creating these technology decision battling, because if they have that empathy from the get go, you will see it reflected in the technology as well. So I could see how there's a lot of room for improvement for systems to bring in more of the humanistic behaviours, even if it's technology and processes.

Soojin Jun
Yeah, and digital health is getting bigger every day. You know, now, many companies have telehealth as their benefit, and it's going to be it was it was helping us when we were having COVID I mean, we it still is, you know, we still have we are still in pandemic. But you know, it's does help but there are components that needs to be constantly improved and the feedback from patients needs to be honoured somehow. But that process is like a second thought for a lot of companies. So, and there's an especially when it comes to minority patients being able to provide the best, you know, do companies provide surveys in a second language? Not that many. Yeah, I know, there's Spanish for a lot of surveys, but what about other patients? What are we doing with them? How are you making sure that these surveys are readable for these patients? And other than surveys? is there other ways to bring concerns? You know, surveys, you get, like, after two months of your visit? Like, are you going to be able to remember what happened? No. And so there's a lot of things that are happening, and again, measured, but are we really measuring it the right way? You know, that's, that's a big question that a lot of organisations don't really ask. And there's a So basically, you know, making the checklist to see whether they're complying to what big organisations like Joint Commission and other health care, improvement and, you know, organisations that measure these things, you know, also like Medicare and Medicaid, they, you know, I know, Moh, you talked about incentivizing. And this is another aspect that I that a lot of patient advocates kind of pays close attention to, like how there's a there's a growth of how organisations want to engage patients. So the term patient engagement is, is the buzzword out there. But it's, a lot of times it's used improperly. It's not something that patient advocates hope to see. How would these words get thrown out thrown to be used, because they're thinking of ROI, how they can get payments, you know, how to make patients to behave the way they want patients to behave so they can get paid. And this is, this is a trend that I see that and and the patient advocates look closely to see whether organisations are engaged in patients the way that patient advocates want to see that they engage. But that this trend is really not the way that they like to see patients or caregivers want to see. Yeah, oh, yeah.

Frank Danna
I'm thinking about those that are practitioners or clinicians in health care going? Wow. There's, there's a lot to think about here in regards to going beyond the surface in thinking that, you know, are you crafting an experience, so you end up getting the rating, so you get the funding, or you crafting an experience that truly takes the actual patient experience into consideration. And, and I think that's a great example, another example, like you mentioned earlier, so simply is, how many translations or versions of your surveys are there in different languages, not just regionally. But also just considering that aspect? And actually, my question kind of follows that train of thought, which is, what are some of those practical ways that you've started to see that clinicians that that practitioners in this space can begin to bring more empathy into healthcare? What are some of those considerations for for people that you recommend, as a starting point or as something that they can begin to integrate into the way that they serve the needs of the patients?

Soojin Jun
So in the turret, the medical chart is the way we communicate. No practitioner to practitioner, so a lot of factors, right nodes and these nodes get transferred to different facilities and other practitioners. And, you know, I think being culturally sensitive is very important. And also knowing who takes care of was, is very important, because many times patients are second languages have either their their children or family members who take care of their stuff because of this language barrier. And when that is not recognised, and others, the communication is going to break down. And I guarantee, I guarantee 100% all patients with language barriers have issues in their healthcare. I guarantee you if, you know, perfectly, you know, well suited patients who may have PhDs, I hear these stories all the time. You know, they still struggle, they still struggle, because it doesn't matter. When it comes to language, it doesn't matter. But then I feel I feel the feeling and the pain of all patients, no matter what, what language they speak, but it forces us to focus on these patients who have second languages. You know, there's no proper way to assess, assess these things at the registration. You know, they don't necessarily get asked what language they prefer. So there's sometimes depending on which system, the healthcare system uses, there's no proper way to record what language the patient speaks. So this is, this is there's so many pieces in every aspect of interaction that I see that said, these patients will fall into cracks. So I'm just talking about the registration surface, right?

Frank Danna
The system they use, already create the inability for a clinician to be able to operate in a way that brings more humanity. Right. So it's like, exactly, just that the first interaction with a tool with a tool that is not designed to connect human to human, it puts the clinician at a disadvantage.

Soojin Jun
Yes. Yeah. And that's, you know, asked, so as if we just passed over this surface and know the interaction that, you know, happens with a bathroom. Let's, let's give an example about cultural, you know, we have all, we all have an implicit bias, and this is very prevalent in healthcare as well. So, and this happens both ways. So, I, I've heard from patients, you know, that, you know, when the cultural differences are not understood, you know, there's a barrier of, like, not being able to be completely open, not being able to be, like understanding what the other party is saying, I've heard from so answers as well, when and the difference is so big, they can't really go further down than like, what they can just see or do with diagnostic testing. So there's a huge barrier right there. And that is, and this is, this is something that I bring also that this is why a lot of patients who are minorities, seek providers who have same ethnic background, even if that provider does not know the language, because in a hope to be understood better, that is the ultimate goal of patients, they want to be understood when they present with their symptoms. But, you know, now the doctor's appointment last 15 minutes, maybe even less. And, you know, there are these different pieces right there to write PAs is and there's practitioners, you know, as you know, they they see patients under the supervision of the doctors. So, what that is is helping is this helping to create the trust creates a bond between the doctor and patient because there's a lot of moving pieces in there in the every in the every interaction that patients go through in healthcare. And even after the patient visits a doctor, when you go to the pharmacy, you get a prescription that's written Language, you know? Is there a person who they can talk to comfortably? and easily pharmacists are processing? hundreds and, you know, hundreds of prescriptions without break? How, where How can healthcare really be helpful for these patients? You know, patients get lost in and I mean, you know, I mean, and you think about it, in terms of, if you're 90 year old gentleman who has no one to help around, you know, and sometimes now, you know, even college who have to take care of these days, they don't really know. I mean, they've never had interaction with health care system, without parents. Right. So I mean, it's not this elderly, it's not just younger patients, you know, it just affects everyone in some way. Right? And every piece of his interactions, it when it compounds, like, you know, it the whole thing, and patient is only one person who experiences these different interactions, and whose assessees the whole process of, you know, the patient experience? I mean, I know there's more movement out there. But if that patient cannot verbalise or communicate the way they want to, then who's who's assessing? Who is responsible? Who's in charge, the station in charge? No, these questions, we really need to ask harder questions. We need to really look into, you know, the system very, very carefully. And the whole interaction that patient experiences through, we really need to look hard to see how we can help patients. And healthcare professionals, I want to emphasise that too, because, you know, health is health systems, and also patients want empathy from healthcare professionals, understandably, I totally get it. And that was me too. I was a caregiver who wanted that. But as I became a healthcare professional now, it's really hard to have empathetic spirit spirits, when they go into these interactions. Because factors are pressed to see more patients in shorter time. pharmacists are pressed to process more prescriptions. And that's how they measure the performance. You know, when I said, You know, I don't get lunch break, people said, like, you know, is that even legal?

Frank Danna
Right? That sounds like it's not

Soojin Jun
legally, you know, we were supposed to, but we don't necessarily get it. And this goes to that, but you know, all healthcare professional, sometimes we can't, we don't have time to take breaks. And nurses, like how many patients do they take care of? per their shifts? You know, they usually do 12 hour shifts. They average they walk three miles. You know, and who's looking at these things and say, This is really affecting our patient care? Not the bottom line. You know, they look at bottom line first. Yes. They don't look at humans first. So how can health care be healing environment? You can

Mohammad Anwar
and this is where I think Soojin there's the alignment with, you know, what we've been talking about is if you want to really improve patient safety, patient experience, it starts with building a culture for your staff, building a cultural environment for the clinicians and investing into you know, giving them that ability to be human right. systems are so structured in such To be like, they're measured by how many patients are able to see at a time how the shifts can be maximised? How can we get the most efficiency? How can we get the most visibility? And, you know, how can we like, you know, check out the box or get the survey to be a certain rating just so we get renumeration, we're not really looking at genuinely enhancing the patient experience, but let's figure out how to get how to train our clinicians to get the highest level of score by really teaching them how to get that score, right. And we're not really looking at building an environment where these clinicians deserve to be themselves be human, if they can't even be human themselves, how can we expect them to look at others at humans, right? So many times the systems that are built and designed are not allowing clinicians and the staff and the health care providers to even have empathy if they want to be empathetic, right? It's not incentivize for it. They're not given the space for it held on let alone, they're not even allowed to be human in their own way. So So how can we expect that empathy to be carried forward to patients? So I think ultimately, there's a lot to be talked about cultural competency, cultural integrations and culture at a workplace like a healthcare system, very need to really consider starting with creating empathy for the staff and each other, that's the only way we can see extent to patients.

Soojin Jun
So yeah, yeah. Definitely.

Frank Danna
Well said, and, you know, I, as we were, as I was listening to this, and kind of, and kind of walking through this process, and thank you for sharing that end to end spectrum, I know that there are a lot of other nuances, but you being able to walk us through someone checking in all the way through, you know, receiving medication and all those elements, I just I kept hearing over and over again, that that love truly equals understanding like humans want to be seen, they want to be heard, they want to be fair, and right. And the more that we can be seen and be heard and be felt, the more it creates an opportunity to be more empathetic. And what I'm hopeful of is that our listeners and our the folks that are watching, are able to feel some of that urgency around around recognising areas in their lives, that they can bring empathy to the people that they interact with. And I think that's a powerful, that's a powerful gift you've given everyone to be honest with you. Because even in reflecting I'm not a healthcare professional, but even in reflecting on situations in my life that I need to slow down, that I need to recognise the stories of others I need to understand and see and listen to understand to other people. I think that's a valuable, valuable tool. So Soojin, I want to I want to thank you for what you've shared today and ask if you have anything else to share before we wrap I'd love to, I'd love to be able to close.

Soojin Jun
Yeah, so I wanted to say I told you today, my desperate day. And the last moment of his daeth where I really fell, he showed empathy. And it was more like a precursor of how I advocate for empathy now. Um, so you know, we were in the emergency department and he was vomiting blood. And there was a nurse that I can't remember her name, but she was giving my dad a painkiller. And my dad said in a very inaudible voice with his all his might. Thank you to my, to that nurse and that was his last word. Even I have a chance to say anything else to me or my brother. Um, and that's what he did and the nurse. That he or she almost, like hugged my dad's head and, and said, Oh, you're not at the place to say those things. I don't have to be thanked. And she was very touched about that. So that moment really taught me a lot of things. I know it's hard for patients to Be able to do that. But my dad did. And he was such person all through his life. The magic happens, the magic of empathy happens when we are able to be thankful, even at the last moment, even when it's so hard. And I wanted to share this story because it gave me a realisation that empathy is possible in healthcare. And I know it's hard for patients to have that kind of moment all the time. But when they do, and this is a power that patients have. And I that's why I wanted to bring it to the podcast and say, when you're able to, that's the that's the patient's power that they can practice. And that interactions in the interaction, the all the interactions that I explained. And the patients should not forget that power. And practice that is the magic can happen. And, you know, healthcare professionals are humans to that they chose those professions for a reason to take care of patients. But we do get higher than we don't get breaks and breath that we need to have that empathy, empathy in our hearts. Because we can't take care of ourselves. So when patients bring that realisation up, healthcare for healthcare professionals will be able to remember and resonate with the patient. So I wanted to share that patients have these powers, and not to forget to bring that forward.

Frank Danna
Susan, thank you for sharing that. Could you share with us your father's name?

Soojin Jun
His name is Gaim lee

Frank Danna
Well, we're very thankful for him. And we're thankful for your time today and what you shared. And we want to honour him on his birthday, as well. And just say thank you for for telling that story. That's very powerful. And I am very thankful that you you were willing to share that. And wow, okay.

Soojin Jun
Thank you for having me.

Frank Danna
Yes, we appreciate it very much. And, as always, I want to say thank you to our listeners, please be sure to check out the book. I know, Soojin, you're reading our book right now. And I'm so thankful for that. That's awesome that you're reading it, you're enjoying it. And it is available to purchase on Amazon and everywhere else you might find books. And you can check it out at loveasabusinessstrategy.com if you're wondering what the book title is, if you're listening to this podcast, which is called love as a business strategy, that's a big hint. And you'll receive more information there as well as free resources. I do want to say as well, the Soojin's medium publication is called I Am cheese. So feel free to go and follow clap because that's what we do on medium as we clap for articles. And you have to follow read her content. It's incredible stuff. And it's powerful to help build empathy and an emotional connection to the stories that that she's trying to tell. And here it loves a business strategy. We're posting new episodes every Wednesday. So if there's a topic that you'd like to have us cover, please let us know you can do that by visiting softway.com/laabs. And if you liked what you heard today, please do leave us a five star review. It's very helpful in helping new people find our podcast and the stories we're sharing, and subscribe on Apple and Spotify. If you know someone who might enjoy this storytelling might enjoy this podcast. Don't forget to share the love as a business strategy pun intended. Soojin, I want to say thank you again. I know I've said that a lot. But I really appreciate your your perspective, your stories, and being willing to bring your father's story to our conversation today. And we just again, appreciate your time on this podcast so much but we hope to see and hear you all next week on loves a business strategy.