Jeff Ma
Hello, and welcome to love as a business strategy, a podcast that brings humanity to the workplace. We're here to talk about business. But we want to tackle topics that most business leaders shy away from. We believe that humanity and love should be at the center of every successful business. Hey, I'm your host, Jeff Ma. I'm a director of Softway, a director at Softway, excuse me, an agency based out of Houston, Texas that specializes in digital transformation, culture, and branding. Each episode here, we dive into an element of business or strategy and test our theory of love against it. Today's topic is empowerment. Now, as a leader, this word has meant many different things to me throughout my career. And to be honest, it's often frustrated me because it's one of those words that you can say out loud as much as you want. But the act of actually empowering someone is much more complicated than that, right? So I can't just go up to someone and say, I empower you to make decisions and all of a sudden, they're completely transformed into somebody new. So I really want to know, what's the secret, and I want to explore that today with my colleagues. I want to dive in with my good friends and colleagues, first of all, Mohammad Anwar, CEO of Softway. Hello, Moh.

Mohammad Anwar
Hey, guys.

Jeff Ma
Vice President at Softway,Chris Pitre. Hey, Chris.

Chris Pitre
Hey, everybody,

Jeff Ma
And director of culture, Frank Danna.

Frank Danna
Hey Mohammad, hey Chris, hey Jeff.

Chris Pitre
So inclusive. And he said it right.

Jeff Ma
So let me let me break the seal on this icebreaker question envelope. Moh.

Mohammad Anwar
Uh oh.

Jeff Ma
If you could instantly become an expert on something, what would it be?

Mohammad Anwar
Time management.

Jeff Ma
Wow, really?

Frank Danna
You're not an expert already?

Jeff Ma
You're kind of known in our company as the expert on time management. That's concerning.

Mohammad Anwar
Like, you know, you got to keep improving. And I would love to become an expert.

Jeff Ma
All right. All right. I like it. Chris. What is the first thing you think of when you wake up in the morning?

Chris Pitre
I feel like this is very similar to a previous question.

Mohammad Anwar
Oh, God.

Chris Pitre
But the first thing I have to do is use the restroom. So the first thought on my mind, it's like, how quickly can I get to the restroom? But, I don't know if the listeners wanted to know that about me, but I can answer Mohammad's question.

Jeff Ma
For avid followers of the show, they just wanted to know if this is still every morning for you. So confirmed. He still has to pee every morning.

Frank Danna
Every single morning.

Chris Pitre
It's life. Don't get old people.

Jeff Ma
Frank, if you had to be handcuffed to one person for an entire month, who would it be?

Frank Danna
My wife.

Chris Pitre
Oh, yeah.

Frank Danna
I would, I would be totally fine.

Jeff Ma
So if she wasn't listening, who would it be?

Frank Danna
Chris.

Jeff Ma
I'm offended. I really expected me to be the answer.

Frank Danna
Just kidding. He pointed at him. I think um, yeah, I think my wife would be would be the person I would be most comfortable being handcuffed to for an entire month.

Jeff Ma
It makes sense.

Frank Danna
Second only to this, this trio.

Jeff Ma
Let's jump into empowerment. This is a big word. I, you know, you guys kind of know how I feel about this word. This word I think is used way too much, just in general. But since we have to talk about it, what is empowerment? Chris, I love your take on empowerment, what is empowerment.

Chris Pitre
So from my stance, empowerment is really letting someone who one shows the maturity, the knowledge and the ability to make certain decisions to you know, I think push something forward, give them that decision space and give them that ability to really own what it is that they are creating, and supporting them at the same time, right? Because I think some people see empowerment as like, imma give you the decision making space, I'm gonna walk away and if you're wrong, I'm gonna come back and like grill you about it. But really, you know, I'm still there. If I'm your leader, making sure that you know, where you need support where you need guidance or advice. You have it, you know, but you're still the one driving and making the calls and looking out for your watch outs and trying to see around corners, etc. But you have that full support in the process.

Jeff Ma
Does anyone have anything to add on to that definition from your perspective?

Chris Pitre
Or challenge?

Jeff Ma
Or challenge? Yeah,

Chris Pitre
I like drama.

Frank Danna
So I I have I have something to add to it, but it's kind of in the way of a story. You guys cool if we just have a little story telling?

Chris Pitre
I just thought you were gonna challenge, I was looking for the challenge.

Frank Danna
I'm not gonna challenge it.

Chris Pitre
Yeah, but you can add I guess I'll let you add.

Chris Pitre
I'm gonna add to it. Yeah, I'm gonna add to it. When empowerment goes wrong, Chris? No, I'm just kidding. So pre COVID we were planning on doing a lot of things at Softway. Like there were there were lots of marketing plans, we were going to be attending all sorts of these events and this stuff. I mean, can you guys even remember back before March, it's kind of hard, but basically, like, there were plans in place, right. And as a result of that, I needed a new headshot, because I had lost like, at that point, about 70 pounds. Triple-chin Frank was no more and humblebrag and triple-chin Frank needed a new updated headshot, because he looks dramatically different. And so I had heard that there was going to be this photoshoot for a lot of these marketing materials. And I was like, wow, this is great. It's a perfect opportunity for me to like, jump in, snap, snap, snap, Vogue, Vogue, Vogue, and then get out, right. And so I asked the project manager who was new on our team, and it's our very own executive producer, Maggie, who's here with us in spirit. And Maggie's been on the podcast a few times, if you haven't heard it before, but so Maggie, I go and ask her and I said, Hey, Maggie, I know that we're doing these, this photoshoot for our marketing content and our PowerPoints and all this stuff. Do you mind if I just jump in really quickly and just get a headshot? And she was like, no. No, okay, I looked at her and I was like, excuse me? What? And I kind of couldn't believe it. And and she was like, No, that's not what this is for. No, and I thought, people, people don't say that, though. To me, why would you say no to me? And I was like, but I, my face has changed. And she said, you know, hey, if you made great progress, I understand. But this is this would kind of open the floodgates. And what we want to do right now is focus on getting this one deliverable done. And you know, another time and I was like, okay, cool. So then I went to another project manager and asked them to try to be more sympathetic to my cause my situation. And I was like, hey, I just tried to be persistent. But can you ask Maggie to see if it's possible, if I could get a headshot? And she asked Maggie and Maggie said, tell Frank no. So, so then the day of the headshot, like that, not the headshot, the day of the photoshoot arrives, and I have just accidentally chef's kiss prepared, my hair is svelt, my clothes are on point and I'm ready to sneak in, get my headshot, regardless of you know what, Maggie Maggie, be darned over here, you know. And so it's about like the headshot, like all the different photo photography, stuff taking place. And like my moment is about to arrive. So Ken, one of our team members, he walks up to me, he's like, hey, man, everybody's having lunch, just one or two minutes, I can quickly get your headshot, it's no big deal. And I looked at him in that moment. And I thought to myself, I can't do this, like I was ready to go, I really was so excited about getting this new headshot because I really needed it or I wanted it. And and then as soon as he said, Hey, you have an opportunity to do this, nobody's really going to care, I recognized that I was actually going to damage the empowerment that we have given Maggie. That I was going to not only hurt her, but show the entire organization that the empowerment we gave her to make decisions about that particular photoshoot was nullified by someone else saying, I don't care what you have to say, I'm going to do it anyway. And so I said, Ken, I can't do this. No, I have to say no to you. And he's like, okay, you know, just walks over. And it wasn't a big deal for him. But in that moment, I actually recognized the damage that comes by way of, of removing empowerment from someone. And it wasn't fair to me when like Ken didn't even have a headshot at that point. Right. And so it's, it's interesting, because when we decide to empower people, we're making the choice to guide and nurture them, even if they decide to do something off script. So the way I would define it, is, it's when you empower someone, real empowerment, is your reaction as a leader, when they tell you no. When you have given someone the authority, and the decision making rights, and they have the commitment to the task, to tell you no, how do you respond? Because just respond by going around them?

Frank Danna
Right, yeah. And just to like, really make sure that people feel for Maggie, she mulled over that ability to say no, she did it just wasn't that immediate, I think that she really felt in her heart like she she wanted to help Frank, I just want to humanize all the Maggie's that are out there that you know, have to say no to a leader. It's probably not as rapid-fire as Frank made it seem in the story, which is just for dramatic effect.

Frank Danna
It was dramatic effect.

Chris Pitre
I can feel for the Maggie's that are out there that have to really muster up the courage to tell their leader no, especially the leaders they admire so much. So, just putting that out there.

Frank Danna
Well, now I feel very bad. But I'm just I was I was saying in that moment, I'm proud of her, I'm so thankful that we have people like Maggie, because, you know, she's got the personality that says, hey, if you give me the task, I'm going to complete it, I'm going to make sure that it gets done. But how often, when we, when we say we're empowering people, do, we really just mean complete a task for me. And if I don't like it, I'll remove it from you. Right. And so I think that that's something that I wanted to communicate and share. Because it's very important that folks out there recognize how often you may be, like revealing your true nature and true culture when you aren't really empowering people

Mohammad Anwar
Agreed. And I think a lot of leaders out there might use the term empowerment, but they're really not empowering, because of the way they follow up through on their empowerment, you know, they they come in and do the exact opposite, they take away the empowerment, simply because they don't agree with certain approach or they don't, they don't like something because of their personal opinion, or biases. And that destroys the empowerment, which in turn destroys the trust that you have bestowed upon that team member. But in return, the team member is not going to trust the leader. And so it's so critical for us, as leaders to understand that when you're going to empower someone, you have to empower them fully, wholly and from a vulnerable place, right, you cannot just empower them, I just want to empower you like this much, you know, and not all the way, then that's not empowerment, period. And you have to understand that. And on the contrary, when leaders do empower, like full heartedly, from a place of, you know, full trust, that team member, you know, and when it's genuine, they will take that empowerment and that trust so seriously that they want to do anything and everything to make sure they don't disappoint their boss, or their leader. And when it's done the right way. That is how it manifests. And, and you know, a lot of great things happen at that point in time. And I refer to that the as the power of empowerment, when you are able to empower your team members the right way. There's, there's just this like, layer of power that comes from it because of the results and the outcomes you can achieve from your team.

Jeff Ma
Yeah, I, like I said up front, I struggle with empowerment so much, because I've been in a leadership position or management position for many, many years. And I still remember times where I've had project managers working under me if you will. And you know, I'm using the word empowerment. And this is before I hated the word. I thought I was I was doing it all right, by saying I'm empowering you guys. This is yours to own. You take it, you run with it. And I felt so good about myself. And I still remember sitting, you know, at my desk and getting messages saying, hey, Is this okay? Can you review this for me? Can you take a look at this? And at first I'm like, Oh, yeah, yeah, sure. And then when the pattern continued, I just remember being like, wait a minute, because it turns out that this person is fully expecting me to still kind of come down on them if something's wrong, and reprimand them if it's not right. That my empowerment just was just a task that had their name on it. And it wasn't something that I really trusted them to do. And I struggled with it because it wasn't in the words I say or how I signed the work. It wasn't the relationship it was actually in. Did they trust me to support them if they failed? Did they trust me to give them you know, feedback that was honest, but not, you know, condescending or mean? Do they trust that I wouldn't just take over if something went wrong? It was it's a tough lesson I still struggle with to be honest. Because because it's just that like this word keeps getting thrown around. And it's this introspective point that's consistently following me in my career. Where what does it really look like to empower someone? Right?

Mohammad Anwar
Yeah. I also think at times, leaders might think they're empowering people. But if they don't set them up to be truly successful, then you're really not empowering them. Right? Like you're like no, you know, I want to empower you go go do what you have to do, but you haven't given them the resources, or remove their blocks and obstacles or given them the necessary knowledge or requirements or clarity and objectives. And you're like you're empowered to do what you need to do and you don't set them up for success. So when they come back, and you know, it's not meeting the outcomes or achieving the results, you set them out to go achieve. You know, you're then at that moment in time questioning. yourselves like, well, I shouldn't have empowered them, or they couldn't really live up to the expectations. But the reality is that you have to also understand that empowerment is not just blindly trusting people, but you actually having to set them up to be successful and doing everything to make sure that they are successful. And that's also something that's a common mistake that I have done in my past career. And it took me a while to understand how to truly empower people.

Frank Danna
I was gonna say, like, what, what happened, when, let's say you empowered someone, and they brought you something, they worked on something that was disappointing to you? Would you typically just blame them and be like, well, I guess you're not capable of doing that thing.

Mohammad Anwar
Not only that, I would end up trying to do it myself. And what that created was this whole workload imbalance inside of the organization, because there was no true empowerment being practiced the right way. A lot of the work fell back on me or certain leaders that, you know, couldn't practice true empowerment. And we would end up carrying the workload and carrying the burden of doing majority of the workload, because we said, well, empowerment doesn't work, or people have failed at it. So I'm gonna just do it, I guess I have to do it, I guess I have to work on the weekends and nights and late nights and do all this extra work. And what that resulted in is workload imbalance, which then results in work life imbalance. And you know, you, you get stuck in this whirl pool where you're not able to come out of it, because you're like, oh my gosh, I don't understand why I have to do all this work. And I'm working so much, and I don't have a life and all of the above. And when you really boil it down, why leaders are ending up working so much it isn't just because of the sheer nature of how much work is truly on their shoulders, it's because the leaders are not practicing empowerment the way they should. Because when you have so many team members around you, and you are going to sit and complain about I have to work so much then I say in, like, put a mirror in front of yourself and truly ask yourself, Is it because you actually have a lot of work? Or is it because you don't trust your team members? And you're failing to empower them?

Frank Danna
That is worth the price of admission. Wow.

Mohammad Anwar
Yes. And that's, that's what I've had to learn from that experience, Frank.

Frank Danna
Yeah, I believe that.

Jeff Ma
He's got a mirror at his desk.

Frank Danna
At all times.

Mohammad Anwar
I actually have a camera on, I can see myself.

Frank Danna
Fair enough.

Jeff Ma
So I want to build on that a little bit, Moh. Like that's, that's, that's a great kind of reason to care about empowerment. I think that empowerment is used as such a buzzword because it's something that's desired from the bottom up, right, like people are like, I want to be empowered. I want opportunities, like from a from a bottom up, lens. What what other ways besides what you just talked about work, work balance. What other ways are there that as leaders, we should be like, what are the reasons are there for leaders to be concerned about this? Like, like, why not just assign out all these tasks and have people get them done? And what why? Why else? Should we be worried about empowerment? This is for anybody.

Mohammad Anwar
Yeah, I mean, it's how you're building a succession plan, future, scalability into your organization. And, you know, by empowering people, you're going to unlock innovation, you're going to get far more diversity of ideas and opinions, which are super critical to get, you know, to achieve better business outcomes. I mean, there's there's just a slew of reasons, Jeff, that I probably wouldn't be able to cover why leaders should embrace, you know, pure empowerment. But I'd love to also hear Chris, what are your thoughts? I know, you've had a lot of experiences with empowerment, and you know, what you've experienced today, I've actually learned a lot from you about empowerment, I'd love to hear your thoughts on that.

Chris Pitre
Like one of the biggest personal gifts that I've seen from empowerment is that you actually get to learn from somebody else's way of doing things, right. A lot of times as a leader, you're so used to telling people what to do, and do it your way and right and like focused on, you know, the way that you would handle certain things. But when you truly empower people, especially as you know, Mohammad mentioned, you set them up for success, and you give them the knowledge, they get to execute in ways that you might not have ever considered, right. But in addition to that, the psychological safety that comes with that, where they're now more willing to share problems, issues, blocks that you may not have been exposed to otherwise. And then it actually allows for silos to be broken, right, you know, you can actually get more things done, because you're able to have things surface that weren't possibly in your purview before if you were to do it as a leader because you might have just railroaded everything and like, you know, use your title in ways that would have sort of either silenced or distance you from certain situations. But when you have that empowerment, like more organizational issues can come to the forefront. And as a leader, that is our job is to get rid of those impediments to, you know, solve those types of issues and not sort of, you know, bypass them and leave them for the teams to figure out. So I think that there is there are these other really tangible benefits of empowerment, but it's just unfortunate when leaders are not capable of seeing beyond their way, their, you know, issue, their ego, their legacy, those those things that, as humans, we naturally worry about and care about and prioritize. But it does and can get in the way of really looking at your team looking at all of your team, not just your favorites, not just the people that look like you act like you talk like you and behave like you. But looking at your full team and seeing that there are potentially people and individuals who could benefit from the opportunity to be and feel empowered by you.

Jeff Ma
Yeah, I'm sorry, I, I'm currently just thinking back to myself and thinking about what empowerment has looked like for me when I think I've successfully done it, and when I failed at it, and it comes back to something I really loved to say, the we culture versus the me culture. And in a sense, when I think back of the times I failed, I was preoccupied with how a result would make me look, or what I would have to clean up in a mess. And it was a very self centered kind of ecosystem in my mind around why I was unable to truly empower others or accept empowerment for others. Whereas I think, where I feel I've been successful, I was truly trying to level up the team and truly trying to raise them up, to make them successful and drive passion through them to be successful, as a business as an entire business. And I think that's just coming to my mind right now. Because while it didn't seem like as a direct connection, it feels like in this moment that empowerment really is about the, it's about the greater good when when people are able to have those opportunities.

Chris Pitre
And just hearing you talk about that reminds me of a story where it was actually one of your project managers, Erin, Jeff, who was on a project that I had the relationship with the CEO, and you know, it was one of those situations where, of course, when there's that, that relationship that you there's this tendency to want to use that relationship for all communication, and for all sort of, you know, deliverable reviews, etc. And, and, you know, trying to get Erin prepared, I was like, hey, Erin, I need you to have a relationship with this client. While yes, I could technically do everything, right. Like I could handle all the communication. I know, I know how she works, I know how she thinks I know how she, you know, prefers to be communicated to, but that's actually not going to make you successful as a project manager on this and sitting down with her, and in the first few sort of, you know, status calls with the client, you know, getting on the phone before for the phone call, you know, hey, Erin, are you ready for this? Like, remember, you know, just speak plainly, like, here's how she likes it. Like, just, you know, if you do these things, it'll be very easy, right? And I'm sure nerves were high on both sides. Like I was nervous. I was like, I just I just hope, I hope I hope I hope, right? Because, again, I don't want to constantly be the go between between our team and the client, when, of course, I have other things that I can be tending to. And that first call went so well. And I think in that moment, you know, Erin, she was new at that time. And I think she really, a showed me her own style of communication. She didn't talk to the client, like I would right, of course. But it was still a different way, and it came across, you know, successfully. The client enjoyed it, gave me positive feedback afterward, right? And it really showed me that, hey, when you really built like, set someone up for success, and build them up before those, you know, major milestones or major moments, you actually can get the same outcome, if not a better outcome than you trying to do it yourself.

Jeff Ma
Yeah, I think the key the key there was that you were you were never gone from the picture right? In those moments, you are there kind of in this on the sidelines or by her side, and slowly taking the training wheels off in that situation. And that that's what worked for that moment. And that that person in that situation so that that's that's a great example.

Frank Danna
That was gonna say like, I think for for a leader, having a growth mindset is imperative for empowering people. And it goes back to what Chris was talking about the idea that you know, you're able to learn something new. And if you give someone a chance to to try and show you a different path forward, you've already learned a new skill or a new way of approaching things or thinking about it. And so I, I feel like that's, that's one of those key elements that's very vital to a leader desiring to empower people is are you willing to grow? Are you willing to, to see opportunities to improve yourself? And sometimes, they're not. Like, I can think of moments in my leadership journey where I would be resistant, because I didn't want to look like I didn't know what I was talking about, or what I was doing. And I have to put that aside, right. And, you know, I could think about Mohammad, as we were talking about some of the things you've been discussing today, you have given me opportunity after opportunity over the years, to be empowered to try things that I've never done before. And, you know, earlier this year, I was given the chance to build a business plan and a strategy. For one of our things, one of the things that is significant, right, the Seneca product suite. And, and, and obviously, the idea for it kind of got scrapped with with all the stuff that happened earlier this year, but you were like, hey, I'm putting you in charge, you're in charge of this. And you gave me access to you, to team members to help support to the other people on this podcast, I had access, and I was equipped, even though I didn't have all the answers, you gave me a chance to try. Right? And I and I feel like that that's really what we're trying to ask people to do is embrace a growth mindset, and provide access. And when you do that, it gives other individuals a chance to flourish. And you can sit back and say, Wow, this is great. Let's model this. Because if you if you choose not to empower people, revoking empowerment is not a victimless crime. Because you're showing other people around that person that you revoked empowerment from that they can expect similar treatment. But the opposite is true as well. If you start to truly empower people, by way of giving them a chance to try, then other people are going to see that and you start to create this culture of innovation and people being more open, like we discussed before, but I just feel personally like those two things, growth mindset and access are really important when it comes to what real empowerment looks like.

Mohammad Anwar
Yeah, and I think, typically, Frank, leaders, they'll make excuses like, you know, I can do it faster. So ya know, the pressures on me, we got to get this right the first time. So I don't want to take the risk, I don't want to take the chances, I'll just do it, it's faster, if I just do it. Those are the typical excuses we hear. But really, it's boiling down to you don't trust your team, is why you make those stories up to just keep the work to yourself. And, you know, you have to be able to step out of that place and recognize that it takes it might take time. But you get it right this first few times, as a result of that your team is going to your team members are going to become much better and probably come up with better ideas than you could have. And in the long run, you're actually scaling your team to be able to do more, so that you can focus on being a leader. Because most of the time, the complaint that leaders have is like I don't have time to mentor my team, because I'm so busy. But when you really think about it, if you actually took the time to mentor your team members and empower them, you would find the time. So you're like I said, you're stuck in this whirl pool where you cannot get out of it. Because of you know, the leaders behavior. So ultimately, to create this environment of empowerment, it again has to start with the leadership and it starts with the top-most leader down all the through all the layers of leadership that exists in an organization to make it possible for everyone to have that feeling of empowerment and true empowerment.

Frank Danna
Mohammad, you you've not always had this particular worldview around a particular perspective around empowerment, right?

Mohammad Anwar
Yes.

Frank Danna
What changed for you? Like I'm genuinely wondering, like in your mind, and the way you lead? What changed for you to begin to apply this way of empowering people and how what would you say to other leaders that are that are that are kind of wondering what that could look like.

Jeff Ma
He was tired of doing all the work.

Frank Danna
Maybe that's true.

Mohammad Anwar
Firstly, I think, you know, the workload was one of the driving factor, but that's been there from like, forever. But the realization came about when I noticed how one of our customer that we worked with empowered me and our team. And when I saw the result that it created when you know, we get a lot of customers. We work a lot of customer service based organization. And we do projects, all kinds of unique projects, and you have to come up with ideas and innovation ideas for our customers. And there's this one customer who like genuinely trusted me and our team full heartedly and said, I trust you guys, you will come up with a product or an idea that is going to be far better than we can. So go do what you got to do. And when he, when he said that, it was just so powerful. And it was so meaningful, because I never had a lot of customers say that to us, and give us that level of autonomy and empowerment. And it just took our team on this journey of creating something really cool and meaningful, and we didn't worry about whether the customer is gonna like it, is the customer going to approve of it or appreciate it, we were just like, no, you know, what, he's trusting us. So we're gonna go do our best. And we're gonna bring something that's extraordinary, that's never been done before. It's like, he's given us the freedom. So let's go do it. And the resultant of that was actually very transformational for all of Softway and our direction and the path that our company began to go on. And that one example and that experience of how a customer because I'm the CEO of the company, I don't have anybody who I report into, to have truly felt that feeling. And I guess that that real feeling for me came from a customer who I believe are my boss, like, essentially, our customers are my boss. And the way that experience manifested itself in the result, and this feeling of being valued and trusted and got us a chance to learn and do something which I would have never done is what really changed my perspective. And from there on, I was like, man, that's so powerful. That's the power of empowerment, and I need to spread this.

Jeff Ma
That's amazing. And wow, like, I'd love to that, that that actually leads me right into the closing because to me, I know the customer you're talking about, obviously. And the cool thing is that when we talk about what is love as a business strategy, and empowerment connected, there's a real love that we to this day still carry for that client. And and and vice versa, right that relationship is is very much kind of this real thing that doesn't go away with projects or with, with with time, because empowerment in that sense, when it's truly practiced that way, really felt like a form of love. Right? Like, that's what I saw, that's what I still feel when we were trusted that way. And when we were when we put 110% into that, to deliver and to be everything that to not let them down, not because we're afraid but because we really wanted to not let them down. And we really felt like we've been given something an opportunity and trusted and we just were not going to fail. That that that mode that we got into created something new out of us is, like you said is transformative. And you know, to me that that was so closely tied to as close to love as you can get, I would say between a customer and a client, I mean, between a client and a service or a vendor, right? So that that's my takeaway, when you share that story, it really, it really got to me to think that way. Anyone else have a connection for love and and empowerment?

Chris Pitre
I think that the way that I've always looked at things is going back to my childhood, like, you know, I'm a food person. So I knew that I was loved when my mom let me cook dinner when she had to work late. Right it sounds really backwards. Like usually you want to be the one sort of getting cooked for. But because I always wanted to, like be able to do what she did, like having that ability to cook for the family and you know, get everything ready and seasoned. And, you know, the way that she likes because it was only has to be to her expectation, not my expectation, right? It's just like, you do it to my best not to your best, right? So. So having that knowledge and having that lifelong skill, right? Like, those are the small things you'd never think about when you're the person giving the empowerment. But you are helping someone with a lifelong learning a lifelong skill, right? Teach a man to fish. Right. And I think that when we don't do that, as leaders, we actually are taking away opportunities. But when we do do that, that ability for people to be and feel loved is there in that organization. And that's to me lifelong gratitude. When you think about all the moments where you were truly empowered and benefited from it, you learn from it, you never forget it. And therefore you never forget that feeling or the person who gave you that feeling right. And so I think that there's that strong connection and you know, as a leader, if you're listening, there's nothing stronger in terms of building loyalty. And that love between you and your team than giving them a true sense of empowerment, but of course that starts with your support, but also setting them up for success. Teaching them educating them, helping them, shadowing them, making sure that they got it right. And I think that that goes a really long way.

Jeff Ma
Well put, that's awesome. That'll bring us to the close of another episode here. At love as a business strategy. And we're going to be posting another episode on the dot every Tuesday. And hopefully you enjoyed this topic. And we'd love to hear from you about what other topics you'd like to hear about. You can tell us at Softway.com/LAABS, and we'd love to hear your feedback, your reviews, and subscriptions would be great on Apple and Spotify. All that good stuff. And so with that, a big thank you to Mohammad, Chris, and Frank for taking the time to have this chat. I've got a lot to go think about. I've got a lot of introspecting to do a lot of people to go empower. And so we will see you guys next week.

Chris Pitre
Bye, everybody.

Mohammad Anwar
Bye.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai